Jeffrey says in the middle of a long comment:
(Daniel) Dennett has written a dense book on free will. I don't like it all that much, but he is very enthusiastic about free will and how it fits with science. My niece was in a classroom in New York that Dennett visited and he spoke to the children about science. My sister says that Dennet inspired many of the children to recognize that it is up to them to ask questions and seek answers for themselves and that they can help bring about a wonderful future by trusting the capacity of their own minds to find new questions and new answers.
It would be such a shame if that enthusiasm would need to be minimized due to theoretical disagreements.
This sounds good, so good that he must have withheld his view of freedom when inspiring the youth about using their brain (I don't think he belives in a mind beyond the brain). I did some quick web research to try and find Dennett’s understanding of free will. He describes freedom as the ability to control our own lives through deliberation. We are able to deliberate and make choices about our future on the basis of reasons. Deliberation results in control of our lives and self-control of ourselves. Sounds good up to this point.
Dennett says this kind of freedom is compatible with determinism because deliberation itself is behavior that might be determined by heredity and past environment.
Dennett's view sounds like this Philosophy of Freedom view found in chapter 1.
1-6 [10] It is said that man is free when he is controlled only by his reason and not by his animal passions. Or again, that to be free means to be able to determine one's life and action by purposes and deliberate decisions.
I found an article by a behaviorist who said Dennett's view of freedom was compatible with Behaviorism. Never mind that the deliberation process is merely the result of past conditioning. “Free will is real, but it...is not what tradition declares it to be: a God—like power to exempt oneself from the causal fabric of the physical world.” Bennet believes in a level of freedom where we can choose between determinisms for our own reasons. This is progress toward freedom.
A compatibilist theory of free will proposed by philosopher Daniel Dennett defines free will as deliberation before action (Dennett, 1984). As long as I deliberate over eating the ice cream (Will it make me fat? Could I offset its effects with exercise later? Can I be happy if I am always dieting?), my eating the ice cream is freely chosen.
Steiner's response to the freedom based upon 'reason':
1-6 [11] Nothing is gained by assertions of this sort. For the question is just whether reason, purposes, and decisions exercise the same kind of compulsion over a man as his animal passions. If without my co-operation, a rational decision emerges in me with the same necessity with which hunger and thirst arise, then I must needs obey it, and my freedom is an illusion.
Bennett changed the definition of freedom so that it would fit into the materialism of natural science. He believes we are unable to free ourselves from our past conditioning. If this idea inspires the youth how much more will they be inspired to here about what a moral intuition is and that a path exists for them to achieve it. The materialistic view is too narrow minded when it speaks of laws. I think we need to work within the laws of the universe, material and spiritual, but as human beings we are able to create our own laws of behavior. POF chapter 9:
9-5 [24] Among the levels of characterological disposition, we have singled out as the highest the one that works as pure thinking or practical reason. Among the motives, we have just singled out conceptual intuition as the highest. On closer inspection it will at once be seen that at this level of morality driving force and motive coincide; that is, neither a predetermined characterological disposition nor the external authority of an accepted moral principle influences our conduct. The action is therefore neither a stereotyped one which merely follows certain rules, nor is it one which we automatically perform in response to an external impulse, but it is an action determined purely and simply by its own ideal content.
[25] Such an action presupposes the capacity for moral intuitions. Whoever lacks the capacity to experience for himself the particular moral principle for each single situation, will never achieve truly individual willing.

process/content
Yea; Dennet speaks WAY WAY WAY differently than Steiner about freedom (and brains and astral bodies as well!)
quickly: to answer your question, no, I don't think Dennet's schema captures his point at all! I think Steiner comes infinately closer, especially in "Anthroposophy- A Fragment." It was only a failure in Steiner's eyes.
Steiner showed that our freedom functions regardless of one's world-view. It is why he said that the world would be better off with truly creative materialists than rigid anthroposophists.
I'm saying that Dennet (who I'm not a fan of intellectually or temperamentally) comes alive when he ponders what makes humans free. We all know what it is like to be with somebody who is moving from their true passion and sharing it. This is why Steiner truly respected and valued and promoted certain strictly mechanical and deterministic systems of thought. He was always using PoF to peer deeper into all thought. This is what PoF provides for everybody.
Hey, look, like I said, I've read Dennet's Freedom Evolves and I've written about the theoretical problems I have with it. I find his theory to not match his conclusion. And that is a wonderful conversation to have in the realm of theoretical constructs. The fact that Dennet himself is trying to find a way to articulate his passion for the value of human freedom within a framework that really pushes against the notion should not cause us to minimize his value.
I think that Dennet is easily trapped by the same snag that has many of us anthroposophists; not distinguishing the reality of Freedom (As direct and non-conceptually elaborated intuition) from the millions of schemas that either argue for it or against it. The only way philosophers can get agitated by each other is if they make this error in reasoning.
Otherwise how can you not maintain actual love for somebody, even if he is saying that he thinks humans are robots? Speaking personally, I only ever get agitated by fellow thinkers when I delusionally assume I can "find" them in the content of their thinking. You never "find" anybody in finished concepts (but you can spend a long time "looking"/"attacking" them there). It is only in thinking's self-sustaining nature that we are "found". An anthroposophist can use a "solid" intellectual understanding to achieve anti-social ends and a pure materialist can use a strict determinism to lighten up a mind and refresh a soul. This happened to Steiner, over and over. And it happens to each of us all the time. The Philosophy of Freedom "explains" this and encourages it. PoF does not promote a understanding of thinking, but inspires diverse and creative participation in one's fundamental nature (as thinking-doer).
So, Tom, I appreciate you showing where Dennet's schema and Steiner's don't overlap, but my point was that this need not force us to loose sight of their mutual source. Your passion for World-Views can also be a great way to not get caught in the content, in my opinion.
Jeff
p.s. I've personally gotten to see Dennet at his "worst" and "best". He makes a great case study in the content/process distinction. But so do we all, ultimately, I believe. Sometimes it is just easier to see it first outside of ourselves.
I was just examining
I was just examining Dennett from a POF chapter 1 perspective, that is all. Even though Dennett likely has experiences of free thinking, he doesn't recognize it as such since he doesn't believe in free thinking or know what it is. That is the value of studying The Philosophy of Freedom. By reading Steiner's introspective descriptions you can identify the experiences within yourself with some perspective of what they mean.
it would be interesting (but alas..)
I think it would be so cool to read a phenomenological description, by Dennet, of his thinking; ask him to leave theory and models behind and really take the time to describe- as best he can as a limited human being- the experience itself. Then get one from you, Tom. Then get a few more from other people (all with different world views)....
And then post them without the names!!!
That would be great. Just reading rich descriptions of experiencing in action. As part of your short reply you said:
Even though Dennett likely has experiences of free thinking, he doesn't recognize it as such since he doesn't believe in free thinking or know what it is.
If we read your your description of your experience and then Dennet's, it would be so wonderful because these would free of the wider intellectual frames. We could just enter into your accounts. I wouldn't be surprised if Dennet wrote a very truthful and descriptive account of his experience that was nuanced and profound. Same with you. I would be surprised if we would be able to say that one of you was having a more important or spiritual experience than the other (I'm not suggesting that you think your experiences of thinking are more spiritual than anybody else’s). When we start talking theory or beliefs it can be too easily to implicitly begin comparing experiences by some type of false spiritual metric.
I might see if I can find some good phenomenological descriptions of cognition (from a wide variety of people who hold various world-views) and post them up here just to see if folks really can spot a materialist by qualitative accounts. I would not be surprised if some good, smart anthroposophists would think a Steiner quote came from a materialist and a Dennet description came from Steiner.
Tom, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "as such" in your post. If by "as such" you mean that Dennet doesn't place the same set of labels (PoF types)on his profound experiences of cognition, then I agree. If you mean that Dennet's experience (i understand we are only using Dennet as a symbol here; neither of us is claiming to know his inner life) is less valuable to himself or to the world because it is of a different type, then I don't agree.
That's what led me to write in the first place. I think I really do share your concerns related to the predictive-uses-of-science. I really do. The difference between us might be that you associate the potential problem with the world-view of materialism (the content of beliefs), whereas my tendency is to see it as an affliction that equally inhabits all world-views because it is content-independent. If you identify with a certain world-view, you will undoubtedly see "the problem" existing in other ones. And you will find it there. Not many anthroposophists have much of a problem with the huge predictions Steiner made about children based on body features and other unorthodox observations. Not many fans of genetic engineering have much of a problem with the idea of finding about how your child's potential future health based on the smallest bits of her body (genes). I think each world view has something wonderful to offer and is also being one-sidedly misused. I need to reread your article about "future psychopaths" but my first impression is that you were drawing a connection between the world-view in which genetic is mostly viewed and the dark side of predictive science. Your fundamental question seems to be how do we help children actually experience their inner lives more deeply. This, I believe, is not a question of world-views.
Anyway, I am eager to compile descriptions of people's thinking experiences and see if there are any identifiable patterns! I might even be able to find a couple accounts by Dennet of his cognitive experience (I seem to remember him being interviewed by a Husserlian a few years ago and the guy was really getting Dennet to describe the quality of his experience).
I'm sure Bennett, as a
I'm sure Bennett, as a focused conceptual thinker, has many experiences of a free thinking. Your idea of gathering individual descriptions of the cognitive experience is the introspective science that modern science has abandaned, unfortunately, for brain scan technology. POF is the fulfillment of introspective science. We are given descriptions and terms for a science of introspection. It just needs to be confirmed and experienced by others.
the shift
Yes, in the realm of science we have swung way over into the realm of sense-data. As Steiner taught, this was morally necessary as part of the condensation process that leads to the direct realization, enactment, re-cognition of thinking. Without abandoning a more dreamy inner "gaze", there is less opportunity to wake up and smell the coffee. Modern science's shift towards sense-perception is the outer "picture" of a necessary inner gesture. Do you see evidence that those who subscribe to world-views that explicitly value experiential descriptions (phenomenologists vs. brain scan interpreters, theatre critics vs. natural biologists, wine tasters vs. archetecural engineers, etc.,) live more freely than those who self-identify with more sense-perceptually oriented lifestyles and world-views? I don't. I simply do not see a relationship between the realization of PoF and any tendency or orientation towards a kind of world-view or even a disposition to seek more experiencial contents. I spend most days working with troubled youth and I enjoy how many of them are extraordinary at describing the most subtle inner states of attention that they prefer.