Those regular participants who moderate a group have been given new comment editing powers. This applies to all comments posted on the web site. It is for the purpose of moderating comments and should be used sparingly.
You will notice a "delete" and "edit" tab below the posted comment.
Delete:
If you delete a comment any comments attached as a reply to this comment will also be deleted. It is preferable to make the comment invisible. (see below)
Edit:
With edit you can open a comment and remove a line or revise. If this is done to the comment of another hopefully you will contact them and explain why or post an explanation.
Invisible:
You can make a comment invisible by selecting "Edit" and then "Administration". Then check "Not published". The comment will become invisible as long as it remains at this setting to everyone except other editors. The editors will see it colored pink to indicate it is invisible.
By making a comment invisible it will remove it without deleting any other comments attached as a reply to this comment. By checking "published" the comment will become visible again.

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This Looks Like a Problem
Tom, I'm not so sure about this new editing power. I just posted to Caryn's Death Star Canteen, and I appear to have the option to edit or delete anyone else's comments! I just added text to Bryn's Ha ha, ho, ho, wondrous!
If that's the way things are set up now, there is an enormous potential to rewrite history and to distort karma here.
I don't think that's what you want to do.
editing
Having more people possessing editing ability just expands administration responsibility to more people.
Serious Potential for Distortion
It does more than that. It makes it possible for anyone to put words in anyone else's mouth. That's a serious potential for distortion.
The only people who have
The only people who have this editing ability are regular participants. When website content is revised the person's name making the revision is recorded in admin records.
Who is Regular
How about a Registered user who isn't regular? There are fifteen hundred of these. Can they log in and change what people have said, delete things people have said or hide things that have been said from others?
About a dozen people have
About a dozen people have editor permission. They would be the regular appearing names you see on the site.
Meaninglessness
Well, ok, but does this strike anyone else as flawed? I trust the people here, of course, but I think it's a poor policy decision. In principle, it makes everything posted here meaningless. Do people see this?
Hi Tom,Not sure what is
Hi Tom,
Not sure what is going on with this editing thing, but until I understand your reasoning i need to ask that my posts not be allowed to participate in this function. I'm not saying you don't have a great point that I will come around to, but before I can let people into my documents, i need much more information. Could you say more about why you find this necessary? If I have questions about something you type, should I simply communiate my questions to you so that you can change them? What are the circumstances in which you think people should not talk to each other about the content of posts?
Thanks,
Jeff
Administrators on all web
Administrators on all web sites have the ability to edit or delete comments. We now have about a dozen administrators. The administrators consist of the regulars on this web site. If anyone opposes a particular regular participant from being made an administrator they should contact me.
Ok, Could you give a few
Ok,
Could you give a few concrete examples of when you would think it appropriate for Carl to edit one of my posts? I'm trying to get out of abstract land and really see the concrete instances in which changing each other's posts is an advantage of direct communication.
I understand that perhaps this will be the way things are on this site. I'll take that into account in my decisions to communicate.
At the very least is the website able to immediately notify a writer if somebody other than him or herself has made a change to a post. If that is the case, I'd rest assured. We all leave long trails of posts on this site. It would seem relatively simple that one would be automatically notified if anybody else decides to edit a post...The two things I'd like to hear back from you on are examples in which somebody should edit a post and if there is an automatic notification of changed posts.
Jeff
Why do you look to me for
Why do you look to me for answers? You are one of the administrators. You tell me.
That's great, Tom! My
That's great, Tom! My administrative decision is that my posts will not be editable by other participants and that I will not have the option of editing other people's post. Thanks! Also, my vote is that we have a group discussion about how many people we would like to have this capacity. Thanks for putting my settings back. I didn't realize you were going to make it that easy!
Jeff
In a post you said you
In a post you said you didn't want admin edit ability so I removed you as an editor. If you want to participate as admin let me know.
Lori or Tim: help please
Thanks Tom,
I also mentioned wanting to reduce the scope of those who could modify my writing. Can you do that as well? I'm not sure who to be asking these questions to because it seems you really want to step aside.
Lori or Tim, could you please reduce the scope of who can edit my posts to just you two and Tom? Let me know if that is possible and, if so, when it has been changed.
I'm not wanting to be pushy. It just seems very foggy as to who is making decisions and Tom now seems confused as to why I go to him first; I feel like I missed a big group meeting last week in which we revolutionized the way the site functions. My sense is that he is wanting us to each make individual decisions and just act upon them.
I guess I made a decision: please limit the editablilty of my posts to Lori, Tim and Tom. And please always notify me before you go into a post. I will not ignore you if you contact me before changing a post. I'll be nice and curious about what needs to be changed. Thanks.
Jeff
Are we safe from rogue posts?
Why should you be an exception? Why shouldn't all admin people be able to intercept a rogue message you post? You may appear perfectly sane today but what may happen tomorrow? People can crack at any time and begin posting dangerous messages that should be deleted or edited.
Loss of job, relationship breakup, or even a gambling debt may cause you to unexpectedly spam the site. In this post 9/11 age we must be ever vigilant to the growing threat of cyber terrorism. The more eyes we can direct toward monitering rogue posts the safer we will be.
This morning I heard on the radio someone saying why should we fear the loss of privacy through the Patriot Act if we have nothing to hide? Do you, Jeff, have something to hide?
Yes, Tom, I have much to
Yes, Tom, I have much to hide. Of course! How could you even ask that? I'm not going to tell you about my first sexual experience on this site. But now if one of those cracked people (thanks for at least seeing that) goes into a very old post of mine and writes about my first sexual act as if he or she was me.....I just have to wait and see if I ever find out who read it.
Tom, are you being serious. On the one had you are asking us all to make ourselves exceptions; you say, "do what you need to do, don't ask me to be the boss"...I give a reason as to why I want the scope limited for my posts (I'm NOT suggesting that my reasons should be anybody else's) and you disagree. Fine. But regardless of what you think, it sounds like you are saying I should be able to freely set it up how I want/need it. The only problem is, I don't know how to change the site and limit its scope on me.
I know you don't want to be the guy I go to, but could you at least tell me what I should do as my next step to limit the scope. I'm very confused as to what you are communicating. Have you made a decision about all this. Did Lori? Do you want your decision to stick or do you want us to make our own decisions?
I asked Lori to help me because it seems to respect your puzzlement as to why I was asking for your help.....help...
Jeff
Jeff, the website doesn't
Jeff, the website doesn't have an option to isolate single users from administration actions so your request isn't technically possible.
majority
Ok, so it isn't technically possible. Thanks. I can understand that.
Now, is it technically possible to limit the editing capacity to just three or four people until the site grows more robust? I understand this would have to be something that is ok with the majority of the site. Are we doing things by majority now?
Jeff
Yes, you can select
Yes, you can select administrators. We do things according to someone taking on a responsibility. Just voting isn't taking on a responsibility.
You mean, I should select
You mean, I should select administrators or that we, as a group, can select administrators?
Safe haven from rogue admins and the Michael Tech School
I was just saying that administrators are selected. According to the ideals of anthroposophical community insight arises out of a community spirit. Lectures on Anthroposophical community are at the "study course" link.
Journals are a safe place to post. If you post a journal to a sub-group only the manager of that group has editing ability of all Journals posted to their group.
If you just post a Journal, the multiple rogue admins cannot edit it. Only the mega-editors could tamper with it, deleting those hidden spam links. At this time the only mega-editors are Lori and myself.
Louie is the single ultimate-supremo editor with web site powers I can only imagine. He can make anything appear or disappear with only a keyboard. Ultimate-supremo powers are learned in the Michael Tech school before birth. So you have to be part of the new generation of souls to have that ability. This tech generation is already implementing aspects of anthroposophical community most Society members haven't even learned in theory yet. I think it is the result of the pure thinking they engage in through computer mathematics.
That's also helpful
That's also helpful information. thanks thanks thanks
Hi Jeff
Sorry I don't know anything about this stuff. Otherwise I'd love to help you. All I've ever done is to promote journals to the front page. I definitely didn't go to that tech school Tom is talking about.
Right Use of Powers
I'd suggest those who have these powers agree to only use them after notifying the person whose post they intend modifying and giving that person a chance to respond. That might be a useful protocol.
Any other thoughts on this?
On Editing
Hi everybody
I've had this awesome editing power for several months now, and never once used it to change a single word anyone wrote. Why would any of us want to do that? Say for instance someone says a mean thing about us. Why not let him be hoist with his own petard? It just makes the person writing the mean thing look bad. I know, because I've said a couple of mean things myself and wished I'd put them in a nicer way. But even then I wouldn't dream of going back and trying to change history. That would betray the trust being put in me as an editor.
I actually deleted a post once. It was ostensibly a journal entry, but really a link to a pornographic site. This was early on, before Tom and Louie fixed the site so programs like that couldn't be sneaked in.
My biggest worry about being an editor was that, in promoting somebody's journal to the front page, I'd inadvertently hit the "delete" button instead of the "submit" button. This makes me nervous still so that I give that little button-pushing action my full attention. I'm glad to say this fearful possibility of deleting someone else's post by accident never came even close to happening.
The only temptation I've found in editing has been the urge to correct a misspelling on the front page, or take the apostrophe out of "its" when it's a possessive rather than a contraction. But no matter what I feel I owe to the English language along these lines, the atmosphere of trust that we all have here, which such silly perfectionism would undermine, is more important.
Now, as far as being edited goes, suppose I write something that's so stupid or so irritating that somebody decides to blot it out? Probably that possibility will inspire me to make a routine out of making copies of what I write in case someone does change or even delete it, on purpose or just by accident. That's not a bad thing, really. The things we write on here could disappear for any number of reasons, I imagine.
In short, the power of editing doesn't seem to me to be something we have to fear in ourselves. The possibility of being edited isn't so scary either, because if someone does that without an extremely good reason, then why don't we all just vote to take away that person's editing powers? That'll fix 'em!
Editing the Akashic Record
Well, despite these suggestions and qualifications, I still think it's the wrong idea in principle. The natural, world-embracing karma of the people here is what this site is all about. Introducing the possibility to alter or obscure that karma artificially just seems wrong to me. I think we should each approach the website in the way we approach real-time relationships, which leave a permanent and irrevocable trace in the akashic record. There's no way to edit the akashic record so far as I know. When we take actions in the real world, they are for real. It should be the same here, only enhanced by a superb memory and retrieval system.
These questions aside, what is the benefit of this new editing power supposed to be? It's supposed to make us each "more responsible" for the administration of this site? How exactly is that supposed to work?
limits?
There are about 9 people who contribute semi-regular basis. I don't feel comfortable with this. Lori, I understand what you are saying and I'm not thinking of specific situations in which Sebastian decides to go into my old posts and make slight adjustments. I've recently been exposed to some bizzarre internet behavior; a friend had to call the police in New York because of a creep (a very smart and social one) who was trying to toy with her. She had never had this sort of thing happen and could not have predicated the way it would unfold.
I'm not understanding why my posts should be open to other people. For some reason I consider it very different for the site manager to pick a few other people who can go in an clean up situations when necessary, but all of a sudden I found out that everybody here can do this. I also found out that Tom will give this capacity to groups of people without consulting me. I'm not happy about how I was made aware of this.
We have people here who believe powerful demonic forces are trying to destroy a Christian Earth. Some will believe that language is a route that certain demons will use to destroy humanity. Some of these will think that certain posts are the embodiment of evil forces. If I am about to get hit by a bus, I want Carl to act on his moral intuition to push me over. I don't want anybody who believes that I (or anybody else) have posted things that simply should never have been uttered to have the power to go into my post. That person definately should erase my posts if they think devils live inside them and they have the opportunity to save Earth a little bit. But I don't want that.
I have no idea what criteria Tom used to make his decison; it wasn't discussed. That feels creepy to me. I don't understand Carl. I like him on the level of casual conversation and I don't think he's possossed. But I've also read what he's written and I could not blame him for saving Earth a little bit through this website. Hey, when the bus is about to hit somebody you just jump!!!
I have no reason to think Carl would act irresponsibly. In fact, I warms me to see that he was taken back by how this managorial decison came about. I only mention him because he is somebody who has been honest enough to state how he sees the future of earth connected to language (he's shared the stakes) and he's been honest enough to express that certain of my posts should not have been written.
People flow onto this site. Some will come for days, some for weeks or longer. It worries me that somebody who comes for a certain amount of time could be quietly granted (if they were active enough and respectful enough for enough time)the capacity to get into my posts.
I have a job where people get very interested in who I am. Some of these people are not stable. I try to not give too much away about myself, but lately I've shared probably too much; I should take out my daughter's real name and not mention my town. But there are ways that I am now exposed that I simply wasn't before. Obviously if somebody changes a post I JUST made, I'll notice and I'll take the time to go back and fix it and ask Tom to do something (is it still ok to consider you the "go to guy", Tom?)....But if I get the kind of guy that was bugging my friend recently, he'll go back to old posts and make relatively subtle changes that he will then put on other websites with my name on them. I might never find out or I might find out a long time from now.
I don't want to over react but I also don't want my reaction to this to be based on mental pictures of how much I trust Lori and Sebastian. I think what I am needing right now is clear policy information. I need to know the actual criteria that will determiine who gets this power. I need to know the actual procedure of how (or IF) the community gets informed when somebody else is granted this. I need to know why it wouldn't be just that a few people have this capacity and can be contacted by others if they feel the need to go into posts....If we had 200 people on here writing each day I could imagine needing 12 responsible people acting as site managers. I imagine it would be fine for somebody on this site to say, "I don't want my posts to be editable" and they would be respected or at least given policy reasons why that can't be a choice.
Like I said, my worry is coming from what I don't know as much as what I know at this point. It will help to hear clear policy around this.
thanks,
jeff
p.s. Carl, I don't have reason to think you are interested in editing people's posts. I'm happy you are concerned about this. I also wouldn't be surprised if you could creatively justify changing a post via some Platonic Ideal. That stuff you wrote about Plato and how a state should be run really freaked me out. I had to decide that you were joking, but I actually don't think you were. It's all too confusing for me to feel comfortable being exposed to strangers and future strangers.
There is not much to know.
There is not much to know. My intention is to distribute as much admin abilities as I can.
I don't operate out of a set of rules or policies. I am not aware of any coordinated activity that is happening on the site that would require more organization. But anyone can work up some rules if they want.
How Does This Help?
How do these new powers distribute administrative abilities?
Part of the responsibility
Part of the responsibility of administration is to moderate conversation. If double posts, personal insults, spam, false information, or anything considered inappropriate is posted an admin person has the ability to delete, make invisible, or revise the comment according to their best judgment.
If anyone disagrees with someones judgment then they can take it up with that person. Making a comment invisible to the public (but still visible to other administrators) is preferred in case an action needs to be reversed.
I have attached a comment to this post and made it invisible.
Angel Power
Far out. Well, it looks like we've all got the power of angels now.
I can see that this will help Tom with double posts, because he won't be obligated to clean up after people any more.
But I'm not sure it's the angels who work this way. I think they pretty much stay out of karma, and allow messes to occur. It's the other ones who actually intervene.
Thanks Tom, It looks like
Thanks Tom,
It looks like you (or one of the 12) has allowed my posts to be changed only by me. Is that true or am I misunderstanding what has happened since I went to the play? I no longer see the option for me to edit other people's posts and I'm assuming this means that somebody responded to my request to be taken out of the new system.
Of course it's not safe to assume and you have not yet commented on why things changed for me. Is it back to just you and a few others able to go in my post or can all 12? I'm not trying to nit pick, but it feels vulnerable to not know how or why things are happening. Could you tell me where I stand in the editing arena. My wish would be that only one or two people could go into my posts. I swear that if anybody else wishes that I would erase certain words, i will listen to them in a conversation about this. Also, if I start using rude language and offensive speach, I have no problem being taken of the list.
Jeff
Thanks, Jeff. I hadn't
Thanks, Jeff. I hadn't seen it in this way before. Even if a general trust did come to prevail over those of us who have this editing power, it might turn off potential new contributors. I don't know enough about the Internet to know if other websites have the same dilemma!
yea, Lori, I'm not sure
yea, Lori, I'm not sure what is normal on the web. I've never been a part of group on the net in which everybody writing can edit everybody else. Outside of ideals, the reality is that right now there are more of us who can edit than who regularly participate. My hunch is that it mostly will be a very small percentage of regular contributors who also function with such resopnsibility. More than that, my hunch is that most sites will have a readily available policy that details the limits of this capacity and that explains who is grated this status and why.
I don't think it is typical that one day, all of a sudden, all regular contributors can edit each other's posts. I'm all for us having a radically different website! I just think we need to take such steps in radically responsible and trasparent ways. I applaud Tom as, once again, being responsive to what comes up on this site. It seems I'm the only person who is confused and I massively appreciate being listened to as I sort this out for myself...THANKS!
Jeff
I'm also quite confused,
I'm also quite confused, Jeffrey!
But I understand this is a sort of experiment in enthical individualism as per the end of POF.
Interesting to learn that Tom has reserved super mega editor powers to himself (and Lori) though, so its a sort of partial experiment.
S.
Not super powers
Interesting to learn that Tom has reserved super mega editor powers to himself (and Lori) though, so its a sort of partial experiment.
I said Lori and I have mega-editor powers. Neither of us have sufficient computer knowledge to be allowed any "super" computing power or we could end up deleting the whole website by accident.
Lori is also using an outdated Macintosh program that is unable to handle most of her mega-computing powers so hopefully she will upgrade soon.
Harrumph!
There you go casting aspersions on Macintosh again, Tom! Besides that, anyone who has any program, even the brand new one that just came out yesterday, is already behind!
Not upgrading any time soon, unless it's to get Skype.
L.
Nothing wrong with
Nothing wrong with Macintosh but the operation is based on the owner keeping up with the many upgrades.
Trust
Circumstances make my response a later rather than never one.
I trust that all who have this new power will exercise it as they see fit. I will not edit anyone's writing without their prior agreement - not even typos and spelingk. You can all fix my spelling if you really need to.
Let us be vigilant rather than fearful of any abusive intrusions. We can do this together!
If changes are made then the addition of initials [JR] will denote interventions. Please use your own not mine!
New front page editor Sebastian (adminsp)
Sebastian wanted to get involved more with the front page so he is now a co-front page editor with Lori.