Sebastian. It is heartening to read you.  We have recently been thinking in common realms.

I understand why you have used the language of violence - such as bomb, self-destruct - to make your point. Such language has contemporary relevance. The underlying idea still holds good in the image of autumnal dying and living. What has served gives back its substance to further serve as the basis for future nourishment of the whole world.  What will serve is reduced to seeds with minimal substance with maximal potential.

The morality of nature efficiently serves the development of the whole earthly life community. Anthroposophy acts in human nature with corresponding intentionality. While we dance among the coloured leaves and trample the seeds firmly into the earth we serve Anthroposophia. While we collect and categorise the dead leaves and forget to nurture the sprouting seeds we isolate ourselves from the course of evolution. History is a fine thing so long as we do not turn completely away from the service of the future. The study of history is a composting process that spring will need.

No matter that we call on different language, you have shown courage in presenting this sensitive concern, and I am grateful for the new clarity you have engendered in me.

Within your images, Sebastian, it is possible to find a path to empathise with those who become suicide bombers. They are also aware of the dying of nature to give life to the future. They are conditioned by distorting propoganda to comprehend this spiritual process in a materialistic context. This leads to tragic acts, rather than to creative spiritual deeds. There are other tragic acts that cost Anthroposophia dear, so let us bless those who show us the true way forward.

Let us learn to regard the mistakes of human beings as their own business, and let us learn to regard the deeds of human beings as the concern of all humanity. 
Where people are at fault, that belongs to their karma; the deeds they perform are a matter for all mankind. 
Let us learn not to worry ourselves about human beings' errors; they have to make that good themselves.  But let us learn to be grateful for their achievements, for it is of such that the whole of humanity's development lives.
- Rudolf Steiner (Lecture 8 May 1907)

..as far as I can see the whole thing collapsed. The "karma" between Ita Wegman and Marie Steiner seems to me to have been at such a primitive level of consciousness that the whole external anthroposophical movement was paralysed as a result.

Dr Steiner was nothing if not perceptive, so there must have been signs of this "karma" (hostility, friction, jealousy) between the ladies going back long before, which he chose not to try to adjust directly. Either that or he simply didn't have the heightened perception of charisma (his) and its wanglings one hundred years ago that we zappy folk have today.

Seems to me that from 1925 to 1935 exoteric anthroposophy died on its feet from the centre outwards. Then National Socialism took over. Allowing for recovery from global war, that probably takes us up to the shell-shocked 1950's. Then, what with the swinging sixties and the momentum following, we are only looking at a serious possibillity of exoteric anthroposophy from the beginning of this new millenium: even then only "exoteric" in the form of internally well-defined individuals who are not waiting for guidance from authority!  I cant put it any plainer.

So I like your funny old thought Sebastian! And Steiner's 1907 insight as well as being deeply compassionate, was prophetic of his own destiny vis-a-vis the shaky start of the "temple" of Anthroposophy.

Togetherness Is possible, but as you can see from my rather radical time line, it is early days.

Love

Bryn

Well said Sebastian. As you know I write a lot using Steiner's information and I often wonder about the need to reference him. I have concluded that since I only write what lives in me, it is now mine to express. He told the teachers to re-write his information for each generation. Let's listen to John's advice and not collect and categorise dead leaves!

Regards the deeds of Anthroposophists, I recently read a significant statement in Karmic Relationships Vol 6 page 28

"You know that I myself had no place on the Society’s Executive, but have so to say held a completely free position within the Society. And in this situation the Society’s development has not proceeded as it certainly could have done. The fact is that Members have been too little alive to what might have developed on this basis. What happened was that from about the year 1919 onwards – after the War, during which the problem of leadership of the Society was a very difficult one – all kinds of efforts were made and undertakings set on foot within the Society. These undertakings were the outcome of ambitions among the Membership and proved to be detrimental to the real anthroposophical work – detrimental in the sense that they aroused very strong hostility from the outside world. Naturally, when such undertakings are set on foot in a Society resting upon occult foundations, one must, for esoteric reasons, let them be. For think of it – if from the beginning I had stood in the way of all these undertakings, most of those engaged in them would have been saying to-day that if only this or that had happened it would have led to favourable results. But there is no doubt at all that these things made the position of the Anthroposophical Movement in the world increasingly difficult."

 What stood out for me are these words, "when such undertakings are set on foot in a Society resting upon occult foundations, one must, for esoteric reasons, let them be." This is all a matter of the will. If we are to purify our will we must avoid actions that erode the will of others and instead take new actions ourselves - probably a bit like playing chess.

Kristina

I joined this group a while ago but have felt too intimidated to make any comments.  I had diligently been reading POF and then slacked off for a while.  I have picked the book back up again and am reading these posts again.  I am enjoying some of the comments and feel I would like to jump in.  I hope these rantings follow the thread begun above. 

I tried reading POF with my brother who has similar interests.  He was immediately put off by Steiner's "insulting" comments. Unfortunately we never made it completely through the entire book together.  Since this experience I have wondered about Steiner's comments for a while but did not think it through as you did Sebastian.  It makes so much sense to me that it would be a kind of inherent "self-destruct" if people fail to make the work their own.

I also appreciate what John has written and the perspective as I understand it re: other's mistakes vs their deeds.  I personally struggle with the perceived "mistakes" of others, ie the NAIS animal identification, the increase in Agriculture restrictions, such as eliminating the purchase or consumptions of "raw milk". Or decisions made in favor of applying copyright to DNA strands, owning seeds, making them infertile and requiring farmers in India and Iraq and other countries to purchase only these seeds making replanting of seeds impossible and seed collection illegal.  Implanting microchips into children, pets, livestock, demented patients and ultimately all of us.  These are just some of my personal interests and concerns. 

What do these "mistakes" mean for me in terms of my actions, my deeds, my thoughts about these things.  If I go back to POF and immerse myself in the book again, will I gain a better perspective for right action, right thought, right understanding?  (My sense is a strong yes).  Do we completely lose our freedoms so we can learn what freedom really is.  Do we reach a point where no healthy food is available so we have to transform the unhealthy food we have created out of our own forces?  The only way around the belly of the beast is through it and the only way through it is with compassion?  Is there still time to "think" the threefold social order together.  Is there still time to build a bridge to the spiritual world?

This web site feels like an oasis to me, the thoughts and concerns and possibility for expression. 

thank you for starting this thread.

respectfully yours,

theresa