I noticed that, like myself, O'Neil concluded that each POF chapter has a world-outlook-mood as described in Human and Cosmic Thought. The first seven chapters follow the order of Occultism, Transcendentalism, Mysticism, Empiricism, Voluntarism, Logicism, and Gnosis.
O'Neil differs with me on the Part II chapters by following the same sequence from Occultism to Gnosis for chapters 8 thru 14. I reverse the sequence for the final 7 chapters beginning with Gnosis for chapter 8 and ending with Occultism as the mood for chapter 14.
Who is right, or is it merely subjective, or can both be right based on some further explanation as to how that is possible?
One difference could be that I concluded each chapter has an opening introduction that sets the mood of the chapter before the views are presented so I looked to this opening section to discover the mood. But the mood does permeate the whole chapter.
Occultism
I say you are correct here Tom; occultism being the ending mood for chapter 14. All the books are written, everything has been said, all anthroposophy knowledge should by now be understood and patiently we wait by the rock.
Love and Light.
My vote's with Tom
I agree with Ch 8 as Gnosis and then descending to Occultism, just like you have it, Tom.
The beginning of Ch 8 clearly seems to be in the mood of Gnosticism, as opposed to Occultism...
To the separate percepts it adds ideally determined elements, which, however, are related to one another, and are rooted in a totality.
Doesn't sound very occult, does it?
Ch 14 seems clearly in the mood of occultism (I know I'm starting to sound like the smart guy from Princess Bride, but please indulge me - I have a truly dizzying intellect - just wait 'til I get started...)
This being so, is individuality possible at all?
That doesn't seem like Gnosticism to me.
Would also point out that (to my recollection - correct me if I'm wrong) only the first and 14th chapters start with questions. Something that one would expect of an Occultist (if its hidden, you have to ask a question to find it)...
Thomas hits a homer!
Well i took on chapter 10 with the idea of voluntarism....and though i know nothing of voluntarism,,,but i had had a good breakfast....it was great, it felt like a home run!
Every word: Voluntarism!
Without knowing that, the whole chapter is somehow disturbing, because you know something is happening, but not what. Or not What!? Ehh......(A little like life.)
Problem is, now i'm so in the mood of voluntarism i also feel ready to hit a homerun...but the season's over.
Poor me,
roger....
O Neil's Workbooks
George O'Neil discovered the "Thought Forms" Steiner used. An example is the 7-Fold form. The form is more important than the content. A profound dimension is given by considering the form. The form governs the chapters, the paragraphs, the sections, even the sentences! This holds good in ALL of Steiner's writings, that means, without any exception! For this reason, the whole written legacy of Steiner has dimensions that have not been discovered.
I have worked with O'Neil's method for well over 10 years. If anybody needs help with finding access to O'Neil's workbooks, any questions will be responded to.
On this path a real "Heart Thinking" can develop. This has been further worked through by Florin Lowndes in Europe. He has a web site "heart thinking.com".
-Roger Lundberg
every sentence?
I would love to hear you say more about the seven fold patterning that we can see in everything Steiner wrote. Now that is a wonderful set of distinctions!!!!
I don't think I can agree that the form is more important than the content, but I am somebody who loves to watch the interplay between them and it would be great to know what you mean in terms of "every sentence." Thanks so much.
Jeff
Steiner and sentence form - the Music of the Spheres
Dear Jeff and Roger,
I have heard this observation many times before - first the seven fold pattern, and now from Tom the idea of the 12 outlooks in each chapter. My view is that if we believe Steiner "puts" or "constructs" his work in these forms and patterns we then fail to observe something much more important.
For example, when a sculpter shapes marble with a chisel into form, he often speaks of unconvering the form that is already there. This is, in my experience, also true for Steiner's writings.
The form is already there in the world of thought, and when Steiner thinks on a theme, he moves his consciousness (more later) within this world of thought, which already has the form we later discover. Steiner doesn't put it there. Its already there and he (via his active cognition) "uncovers" it.
Working as most of us do within discursive thinking, we are not having an experience of thought of the kind which Steiner does when he has the experience "it thinks in me". So we could say that The Philosophy of Freedom is such an important "book" in the evolution of humanity, that it is actually a Being in the spiritual world. What Steiner does in following out the theme (the questions and riddles he determines out of his own freedom) is move in the thought world surrounding this Being, which thoughts are a kind of ethereal garment for this Being.
Since Beings tend to also be members of communities of Beings, the whole realm of the thought world (the ethereal world as it thinks in us) is filled with the Music of the Spheres. Steiner with his cognitive activity moves in this thought world (or better said it moves in him), such that by the discipline of his I within the field of his consciousness, the Being of the Book reveals itself over time.
The patterns are there because the Being and its ethereal thought garment are permeated everywhere with the Music of the Spheres. Steiner follows the theme with his I, out of a kind of selfless renunciation of egotism (he isn't pridefully writing something people will admire long into the future, but having an ethereal world experience which is also a kind of dialog with the spirit in accord with the questions that live in him). The Spirit of the Being of the Book reveals itself to him, not in an assertive way, but out of Its own will of sacrifice to work with a human being.
His renunciation of egotism, and the Being's own selfless cooperation, produce a cognitive product (Steiner has to reduce the experience to words on a page in the end). This activity of incarnating (reducing the experience to words on a page) the ethereal garment of the Being (which appears to Steiner's consciousness as thoughts being thought in him) then results in the forms and patterns, because of the degree of selfless discipline applied by Steiner to such work.
The questions are his riddles. These have developed a great maturity, thus enabling him to look at his own inwardness with great care (following the methods of natural science). No doubt this intercourse with the Being of the Book is actually a many yeared activity, which Steiner over time refines with great artistry. He sculpts thought onto the page, and at each pass of his chisel, excess is removed such that eventually only the core and its essential pattern laden essence remains.
joel
Poetry with 12 stanzas, 7 lines
Toward Imagination
Lecture Six
By Rudolf Steiner
July 11, 1916
THE FEELING FOR TRUTH
Before Today's talk, there will be a recitation of several poems in the first part of the evening. In these poems I have tried to express some things connected with the way we think and feel in our spiritual science. These verses were originally intended for a eurythmy performance in Domach and were indeed first performed in eurythmy. I will soon publish them with a few words of explanation, and they will be available here in a little booklet as part of our published cycles.1 However, before we begin, I would like to introduce the verses with a few comments.
Last time, in another context, I spoke about the art of poetry. Now we must really take seriously what I have said so often this winter, namely, that the whole impulse, the whole spirit of our spiritual science has to enter the culture of our times and bring something special to it. Poetry is after all not just a matter of expressing something one has invented or thought, but of expressing it in a certain form. Spiritual science seeks to connect the human being with the great laws of the universe, the great laws of the cosmos. The deepest impulses of spiritual science will be understood in the true sense of the word only when people realize how extensively we are actually searching for the connection
116
THE FEELING FOR TRUTH
between human beings and the great transcendental laws of the universe.
What is nowadays called poetry will gradually take on a new face. Granted, this is hard to understand these days, but it is true nevertheless. Though nowadays people hardly feel this way, poetry should represent what human beings experience together with the cosmos, what is drawn from the mysteries of the cosmos. All this must flow into poetic form. If we create certain mental images that are representations of what belongs to imaginative knowledge, we can then discover the laws governing the position of the twelve signs of the zodiac and the relationship of the movements of the seven planets to these twelve signs. We can also identify certain movements and laws that do not apply to all seven planets, but only to the sun and moon and their passage through the signs of the zodiac. What matters is not that we serenade what goes on in the universe, but that what speaks there in the great laws of the universe also speaks in the form
of our poetry. .
And today you will hear attempts at poetry where the laws that reign in the cosmos also prevail in the sequence of the lines, their relationship to each other, and in their meaning. For instance, you will hear a poem of twelve stanzas, and each stanza has seven lines. The structure of the poem is such that what the seven lines express represents the laws of the movements of the seven planets. The fact that there are exactly twelve stanzas and that the mood of the seven lines is repeated in each stanza corresponds to the laws determining the planets' orbits through the signs of the zodiac. Thus, what is going on outside in the cosmos, in the harmony of the spheres, is also in the meaning of the twelve stanzas of seven lines each. The laws of the cosmos are meant to prevail in these twelve verses of seven lines.
117
TOWARD IMAGINATION
You will find, let us say, in the Capricorn stanza that the fourth line expresses a certain position of Mars in regard to Capricorn. The meaning of this line must be such that if you were woken up from sleep and heard only this one line from the Capricorn stanza, this Mars line, you would be able, after having developed a feeling for this, to say this line is the Mars line of the Capricorn stanza. In the same way, all the other lines have their meaning. Thus, the structure is not just superficial or merely external; it is the poem's inner structure. This is what matters.
What a wonderful example of
What a wonderful example of Steiner talking about something with an explicit form/content function.
I find Steiner to be very upfront about when his creations have an explicit form/content component. He does not seem to hide that stuff. But then again....how would we know he hasn't hidden a billion secrets in each sentence until we look for them all?
Can you copy and paste the poems, Tom?
"finding" young Steiner
yea, it's all about the content (to me)....I've read so many descriptions of what is found in the book. How he sneaks in information about Old Saturn; how the entire content of theosophy can be found in the book; how the book was written is such a way that.....
i'm fine with every theory being true. on the internet we can see that groups of people will cluster around what they love and find everything in the object of their love. it's not just Steiner who snuck intricate patterns of brillance into everything he did. any group that centers around a big creative brainer will tell exactly how much more there is that the world must mine from their teacher. The Wendt students have some really bizzarre stuff to say; just kidding.
so i'm not saying that creative recognitions of 7 can't be found in the text. but i'm sure we could find profound patters of 4...and 5...........and 6...........and 3 and 12 and 15 and.........especially if Steiner gave indication that we could! If somebody thought that Steiner said that PoF contains a hidden teaching of threefolding, it is simply a fact that the teaching would be found and written about. And depending on who was doing the "finding", it could be a breathtaking work of importance.
Concepts are pre-separated multiplicities. How do i know that; because I can go back to the edge that gave me 'pre-separated' multiplicity and let it give me infinitly more ways of explicating itself; "pre-separated multiplicity" just happens to be one way of getting at the intriacy that is a concept....and I could go back to that bodily edge and let the pre-separtatedness of "intriacy" find another way of saying that word as well. The coming of "intricacy" changed the intricate and directly sensed activity of intuiting from which "it" came.
It is just a fact that if somebody had a strong enough need to read all of your essays, Joel, looking for how every seventh sentence somehow exemplifies the nature of the 7, he or she will definitly find it in there.
But, still. I'm interested in knowing what group is finding things about 7 in PoF. Not to say they are wrong...but I think PoF has much to say about such "finding"....
I hope there aren't too many people waiting for the day that PoF is recognized as a masterpiece of form. But I'll take the content any day of the week.
I imagine that back in the day there were groups of people who knew in subtle detail the intricate patterns that one could find in Christ's leg hairs. And there were other groups that studied the way He walked and found awe inspiring rhythms in the form of his movement. Perhaps the way he played marbles was also an advanced teaching in Karma. But I'll take the content and enjoy the hell out of the brilliant variety of costumes it can don!
The Philosophy of Freedom is a man's explication that comes from the source of all explication (in the beginning was the...) You can read it in order to notice that source (activity, capacity...), but you can also read it to notice millions of other fascinating things about............whatever else you are interested in. The book's content is your thinking and nothing else (there is one triangle; thinking isn't an exception). To find yourself in it, you'll go through your own unique set of forms (via words, emotions, thoughts, dances, essays, meditations....) and these forms will hopefully not become merely distractions from the content of the book: the self-sustaining nature of the activity that is you, that is Christ, that is Atman, that is.......pick the symbol of your choice and let it mean what your thinking actually is. We are not heading towards a future where angels have "a" look. We are hopefully heading towards a future where all "looks" will only be significant in terms of how they are presently functioning to say something.
Jeff
p.s. i like to hold two pictures in my mind at the same time: the realm into which the book PoF is pointing and young Steiner pointing to the book while declaring how devastated he will be if his dear friend (Rita) doesn't like it.
Rhythm
'Painting is poetry that is seen rather than felt, and poetry is painting that is felt rather than seen.' - Leonardo da Vinci
Ye, those are beautiful lectures.
*
Hermes Trismegistus: Many men have affirmed many and diverse things concerning the Cosmos and God, but I have not learned Truth; therefore, O Lord, make plain these things to me.
Pymander: Hear, then, my Son, how these things are of God and the Cosmos.
God; Eternity; the Cosmos; Time; Generation.
God maketh Eternity;
Eternity maketh the Cosmos;
The cosmos maketh Time;
Time maketh Generation.
The Substance, or Essence, as it were, of God, is the Good, the Beautiful, Blessedness, and Wisdom;
Of Eternity, is Identity and Sameness;
Of the Cosmos, is Order;
Of Time, is Change;
Of Generation, is Life and Death.
The Operation, Energy, or Activity
Of God, is in Nous and Soul;
Of Eternity; is in Permanence and Immortality;
Of the Cosmos, is in Integration and Re-integration;
Of Time, is in Augmentation and Diminution;
Of Generation, is in Qualities.
Therefore, Eternity is in God;
The Cosmos is in Eternity;
Time is in the Cosmos;
Generation is in Time.
Eternity abides with God;
The Cosmos is moved in Eternity;
Time is accomplished (has its limit) in the Cosmos;
Generation takes place in Time.
Therefore, the Source and Foundation of All is God, but the Essence of substance is Eternity; and the Matter is the Cosmos.
The Power of God is Eternity; the work of Eternity is the Cosmos, which is unmanifest and also ever being made manifest by Eternity.
Therefore the Cosmos shall never be destroyed, nor the things in it perish, for Eternity is indestructible, and the Cosmos is contained and encompassed by Eternity.
*
Dimensions
It is interesting the written legacy of Steiner has dimensions that have not been discovered or to be discovered individually. One gets this impression Rudolf's writings are very much alive! The Being within surely (as Joel wrote here). I am also thinking about the phenomenal discovery in the book called the 'Bible Code' also dimensional writing? Although, different from what we discussing with Steiner's writings - the dimensions which possibly talk to and open the lotus flower; the Bible also does this and surely contains the Being within - the living Being. With this - The Bible Code discovered the Bible has writings over the writings. Phenomenal! This must be the science you speaking about Carl .. spiritual science!
Side tracking from O’Neil’s workbook a bit; apologies – I have enjoyed reading the extracts from this work.
Steiner's Form
Many thanks for your comments, particularly Joel's!
I only used the form built out of 7 members as an example. Obviously there are places where he used 3 or 6 or 12 or 13, etc.
But, ...there was always some form, or rather, overlapping forms. For example, the 10th sentence (of 28) in paragraph 18 of 49, in chapter 3 of 7 chapters of part one.
It is a world of correspondences. As Steiner says, "you must read completely", that is, seeing the whole. All the beings in the universe live in relations. To imagine that Steiner would have a linear train of thought and write it down is vastly under-rating what his work signifies, though it can be read at that level! Each statement lives in relation to the others. One must read completely. Then one can create out of the same reality, one is not a passive onlooker....
The content is of interest to the head (and a little heart), the form expresses the movement of will. "My thinking is a willing." -R. Steiner
Wishing everyone much inspiration!