Can we put together what cannot be put together? Steiner and Marx? The author has done this and has disclosed a fascinating new view of the world and a man in the world.
He has formulated a new paradigm and a deep-rooted unity of materialism and idealism, religion and science, inner Christianity and entrepreneurship. However, this book is not just an underwhelming philosophical essay; it is a path to initiation – not just a mystical one through mere idleness, but an initiation via responsibility for the improvement of the material conditions of human life on Earth.
Moreover, the author has succeeded in bringing a system to philosophy again after a long period of time. The book deals with developing “technical organisms” and the future position of the transformed human towards such organisms corresponding to the position of the highest spiritual beings, towards humans at the time of their creation.
The relationship between our spiritual evolution and technological progress is a crucial moment in this book.
Dear friends
It was about my new book. I would like to introduce it to you. I hope that it can be interesting for you.
Please let me know your opinion.
I am looking forward to your correspondence.
Technizismen
Hi Valdi
Your book sounds interesting. I am wondering have you read Rudolf Steiner's lecture on Technizismen and how it relates to your book? This lecture is in the book I have just mentioned Polarities in the Evolution of Mankind.
You are right to say our spiritual evolution and technological progress is a crucial moment; to quote from the lecture -
"The destiny of the human race must be determined by human beings again! ... we can only become sure of ourselves as human beings if we walk the road created by the whole of technology, but do not let our lives be governed by the products of technology ..."
Thanks for your comments.
Caryn
Hi Carin,
Hi Carin,
first of all I am sory for my poor english. I have not read that Steiner´s lecture, but your quote shoved me Steiners different or in better case his abstract approache to this problem. On the other hand I would like to show circumstances when we can govern to technology. Thank you for your interesting reply.
Vlado
the astral world
Hi Vladi
Your english is not that bad - don't worry - Im english speaking and my english is not that good! I am interested in hearing more about your book - I should buy it aahh I have so many books I'd like to get :) I see Rudolf Steiner's lecture on Technizismen is not on the RSarchive so I post an extract from the lecture here. Before I post it I am posting 'understanding the astral world' I am sure this is well known in anthroposophy and it was the first thing I learnt from Steiner - I am posting it before the Technizismen post because they do go together. The Technizismen lecture is quite an eye-opener - I would like to say here; as human beings it is possible and very positive to go beyond the astral world and I always think to myself Lord Jesus Christ did not die on the cross for nothing. When we believe His Body is raised so shall our bodies be raised.
Valdi, I look forward to your comments and how the lecture relates to your research. Caryn.
Understanding the Astral World
The realm above, next to and around our visible world is the Astral realm. The Astral is a realm where desires, passions, feelings, wishes, sensations, blind instincts, fantasies and lust take on myriads of forms and shapes.
Here supersensible beings higher and lower than man can assume shape and form; some entice and deceive him, others to communicate with him. Here also are mankinds individual and collective hates, passions, wishes etc that take shape and form.
In addition, all the soul qualities concentrated in the various animal species have their group souls in the Astral world. For instance, the quality of cattiness that embraces all cats, the tigerishness in all tigers, the rattiness of rats, the foxiness of all foxes etc.
One can also encounter astral forms representing qualities of supersensible beings which never incarnate on earth. .
What a diversity of shapes of forms all these beings can assume. How hideous some of these can be sensed from descriptions of nightmares, childhood dreams and feverish experiences.
In the Astral world forces of sympathy and antipathy are dominant. Each mans own inner nature attracts to himself those beings of a similar nature to this own. Antipathy repels to unlike him.
Self-knowledge therefore, is essential before entering the Astral world, because ones own desires and passions confront him in animal or more seldom, in human form. Even the conditions of ones physical organs are spread our before him and take a dramatic animal form. Delusion results for the unprepared and unsuspecting.
Into this world is the medium, the drugged and the hypnotised cast. The dangers of deception are present every moment and he who enters the astral world unprepared and uninformed of its nature will therefore bring back unreliable information and fantasy.
The human being has a supersensible 'double' which takes of his own inner nature and ones own inner nature may take on shapes so horrible and frightening.
One may call our 'double' in the Astral world as 'The Dweller of the Threshold'. It is he himself in his unpurified inner nature that thus confronts him.
Purifying the inner nature, through Christ provides the Way and the Light to raise our sentinent soul to the level of Spirit-Self. Man needs a high degree of ethical development, self knowledge and courage in order to enter the higher worlds safely. With this man gains freedom as an individual ego distinct from his former state of being just a member of a family, a tribe or nation.
Technizismen
Rudolf Steiner : Polarities in the Evolution of Mankind
Lecture Stuttgart, 14 November 1920:
Technizismen – Technicisms ‘Products of Technology’ further defined as demonic elemental powers in technology.
Rudolf Steiner foresaw human work stepping back and directing the actual work done by machines. As happening; in the early 1900, 79 million ‘horse power years’ of energy were produced in Germany. These energies were controlled by humans, but in fact derived from machines.
The energies expended in work are measured in units based on the work a horse does in a year. Germany was producing 79 million horse power years of machine energy per year. What does this really mean? It shows in comparison with the population figure for Germany that on average every single individual in Germany had a horse by his side. This means the inhabitants of Germany did so much work in the field of technology having a horse work for him all year long. The population then was @79 million and the energy used was 79 million horse power years. The work done by machines, all kinds of machines, therefore had the same effect as if every individual had a horse to work for him.
When war broke out the horse power energy more than doubled and these energies were becoming quite independent of human beings. A point had been reached where human brains had created something outside themselves causing the forces of destiny to be surrendered to the powers that were active in the objects they themselves had produced. What is alive in those forces that work for them day by day?
Before technology people looked at the phenomena in the world in such a way they perceived a certain number of elemental beings – this is called ‘superstition’ nowadays. However, we know elemental ‘spirits’ are indeed active in the phenomena of nature. Today people only see dry-as-dust prosaic natural phenomena.
The modern intellectual approach that we call a scientific attitude came into being and within a relative short time humans became to depend upon machine ‘energy’ just as formerly it had depended on natural phenomena. These machine forces and energies also exist and take effect independent of human beings, just as the forces of nature are independent of human beings. Rudolf Steiner called these demon elemental powers; Ahriman powers.
He said today’s ‘enlightened’ minds will consider it superstitious to look for spiritual powers in technology and he said they have not the least idea that demonic spirits are active in the whole world of technology created by the human race. They work at an unconscious level, taking hold of the unconscious mind.
Steiner said that human beings will not be inclined to accept this. In the first place those things are at an unconscious level and in the second place people feel it would superstitious to say demonic spirits are active in the machines they have produced. They are active nevertheless and it is said it is happening at a fast pace. And acts on the human will.
The intellectualism of modern science does not enable people to gain immediate conscious awareness of the will. The danger is the Ahrimanic world will take hold of the human will and human beings will completely lose their bearings and this will form the basis for future earth lives in us.
But human beings are more than just intellect; they have feelings and sensibilities. These have to cope with everything entering the soul from the products of technology, from machines. The greatest problem of our time is that people will slide into the Ahrimanic sphere without the support of the Christ force. When we speak of the Christ force we are speaking of something very concrete and positive that is entering into human evolution in the 20th century.
The Christ event that will happen in the first half of the 20th century to give human beings their bearings. The nature of the Christ event will be such that more people will be having objective experiences and will know that the Etheric Christ is walking on Earth. If people come to know this Christ power, if they let it enter into them they will find the right way of dealing with the forces of influence that come from the Ahrimanic powers.
To quote Rudolf Steiner again-
"The destiny of the human race must be determined by human beings again! ... we can only become sure of ourselves as human beings if we walk the road created by the whole of technology, but do not let our lives be governed by the products of technology ..."
our destiny
Hi Carin,
I have never got so valuable compliment about my english in all my life - thank you a lot. Yes purchase my book - you will be the first of all on the all world, of curse, except Slovakia because here I have sold plenty of them. But here I am quite famous - even I have students here.
Ideas from your posts I know. Now when we are giving wisdom to our technologies we are changing our astral body - we are purifying the inner nature, Later when we will giving life to our technologies we start more radicaly change our etheric body. We are destiny for high beings but our destiny is life of technology. That means that our life have let high beings free and life our technlogy will let us free.Than we will get freedom from Ahriman powers - Then we will get freedom of etheric body like Jesus Christ. That means that our karma is launching a new technologies on the market. It is quite not nice reading because I am speaking in my book more about our tasks and resposibilities than about freedom to see in astral world or freedom in changing our material body.
Carin please let me know if you can understand my english, if no I will try to say it in another way. Or correct my gramatical mistakes and send it to me : vlado@orientacia.sk after than I could see if you have understand me correctly and I can repeare my post at the webpage. Thank you.
Hi Valdi
Your ideas come across very well, and they are exciting. I've always felt that the digital technology was going to be our undoing somehow, despite anomalies such as this website, but in the few things you've said here, you've given me a completely different perspective!
Thank you, and I will buy your book too.
Thanks Valdi
Dear Valdi,
Your book sounds very interesting and I look forward to reading it. From what you have communicated here so far (and I would not worry about your English not being perfect, you communicate well), the book is a compliment to understand how we, as spiritual beings, can work with the new technology (internet, etc.) in order that it may serve the good (perhaps even redeeming some negative aspects).
Best regards,
patri
Thanks Patri
Patri my book sounds more provocative than interesting, but I really want to say in it more about technology than people ere usually waiting. I want to explain that building new technologies is our very hard cross road. We have to eat and sleep and that is why we have to build living and prosperous companies. Each new technology will destroy our environment and that is why we have to ansver by loanching new beter technology on the market. This proces is our horrible way, but on the end of it we will born in new etheric body. We have to create living companyes because we have to return life. At the begining we got living body and now we have to return it - it is our karma or destiny. And when we will return body only after than we can get new wonderful etheric body, only after than we can get freedom and power of etheric body. Jesus Christ showed us on the cross that we have to return our physical body. I would like to say that my book is about our responsibility for material world, for our living companyes. R.Steiner also have spoken about it -he said that we have to transform all material world. I would like to be only more concrete.. Aááh so many english words....hi hi....Patri thank you for inspiration.
Kind regards,
Valdi
New etheric body
Dear Valdi,
Working on building that new etheric body, so look forward to what you communicate about this in your book.
Love,
patri
Dear Lori
Yes we have to teach us to love our technology. It is our child. And after than we learn new type of love - father´s love. Got love as with that love. And after than we will be so nice like he is.
Have a great day.
Valdi
Thank You, Valdi
I will now have more patience with my computer, and try to learn something about it rather than just cursing at it when it doesn't do what I want!
Turning over a new leaf,
Lori
Dear Valdi! Dzien
Dear Valdi! Dzien dobry!
Congratulations on the book!
Don't worry, your English is much better then mine.
I like your idea to join the opposite things. All my life I try to do it - for example, combine academical (=technical) and 'natural' or, better to say, more humanistical medicines...and looking for connections between completly different people, trying to find always positive sides in negative things etc.
What you wrote is our future. Of course, we are responsible what will happen further with us inside the technical progress, we cannot stop it - why we have to do it? - as you already said, it helps us, it makes our life easier, more comfortable, interesting etc. But on this way we have to be very carefull, we cannot loose ourselves and others - human beings... This way must be a very councious, we cannot forget that we live not only among machins, which need our help, but also among alive world. I have, for example, also a very good relations with animals and I know that in some small percent I help them ( although sometimes I think, may be they help me more). Everything has two sides. May be the simple words about 'gold middle' will be the proper here?
All the Best!
Olga
P.S. I think, if we try to graduate the importance of our responsibility , we can start from mankind (first from ourselves), next - animals, plants, minerals, machins and technology and ....here.. we have to comeback to point 1. OMG! =)
Thanks Olga, thank you for
Thanks Olga,
thank you for your reply.I am writting in english because of Carin, Lori, Patri....
I am agrre with you. First from ourselves:) Yes the first must be human beings! That is why in my book I am trying to show our history in our physical body like humanisation and emancipation process. From struggle for life - from love in blood at the begining - to the agape love in our long future. Steiner have written about redeeming minerals, plants, and animals and at the end about redeeming human beings. I would like to make point that his sequence is correct and I am explaining in my book why. Wat will hapen when we will redeem minerals? We loose our physical body. But how to do it? What we are doing now from Steiner´s point of wiew? First of all I would like to answer these questions to complete and concrete all philosophical system - to concrete all cosmoconception. After than we will better understand how to help our animals. Olga I understand you well I am only ansvering on second - ontological question. Yes Steiner´s sequention sounds stange - that is why I would like to explain his idea.
Have a great day!
Vlado
Ahoj Vlado! I will enjoy to
Ahoj Vlado!
I will enjoy to read your book. I need learn a lot.
Heart's Regards
Olga
Dzień dobry Olga, I am
Dzień dobry Olga,
I am happy that you are interested to read it. I hope that you will find useful ideas there for you. I also would like to learn a lot and I hope that here on this webpages I will meet a lot of friends/teachers. I am enjoing that you will contact me again with feedback - with opinion from my book. I enjoy on it. I respect you.
Pozdrawiam serdecznie
Vlado
Hello Olga
Dear Olga,
Great to see you back here again. I understand that we help in redeeming nature and the elementals through the love and attention we give to same, and they help us in myriad ways. We help the animals through our love and care, and they help us also. I am looking forward to reading Valdi's book.
The best to you and your family.
Cheers,
patri
understanding communication
Hi Valdi
I think one of the greatest challenges we face in this day is understanding what someone is communicating. This comes with understanding a persons background; where they come from which has taken them on the road they are on. Without the attempt to try and understand comes miscommunication and misunderstanding. I speak this to myself after wondering what do Steiner and Marx have in common and a member here pointed out what about world view perception … which had me thinking. This is one thing when Christ consciousness is spoken about – I find everything said or done weighs on the conscious.
Thank you for your further overview on your book, it adds more to my understanding and I am preparing a reply which hopefully we can discuss further.
My regards
Caryn
Hi Carin, Preface
Hi Carin,
sorry for my delay, but I have to study chapters from Steiner which you me recomanded - thank you for that. I feel the best answer to your previous question could be preface from my book:
Preface
When I recently made up my mind to present the results of my long-term survey, which I briefly entitled A New Paradigm, I did not suspect this task would be so hard. However, I would rather skip the detailed description of the troubles which I encountered. I may be wrong in saying this, but namely those hard conditions, and on the other hand, the absolute freedom under which this work was written, paradoxically seemed to make it much easier.
I did my best to make my writing comprehensible, in other words, to meet the spiritual needs of the readers as much as possible. However, when I asked my friends to read the first version of the text, which at that time was only a few pages long, I felt that I had failed to forward the scope of my thoughts to them. This experience was extremely frustrating as by that time my life had been fully inflated by the desire to share the knowledge I had obtained with others. I often wept for happiness when I imagined that I would be able to share with others all of these ideas fantastically meshing together in my mind. To be sincere, my writing was also driven by the well-known statement that the difference between the significant scientist and the non-significant lies in the ability to express even the most complex ideas in a simple way. However, it took a few more years until I came to the conclusion that my bizarre concept was grounded enough and could be offered to all those who were sincerely seeking.
Later, I realized that my thoughts could be the most effectively expressed within a relatively well known historical and philosophical context. I approached classical philosophy via Karl Marx and Hegel, and my path to the esoteric society, which I entered after I had left the Philosophical Institute of the Slovak Academy of Science, led via Rudolf Steiner and afterwards Max Heindel. When I was a student, Marx’s philosophy was well-known in our region. I personally feel indebted in some way to Marx as a teacher of philosophy. The thing is that at that time we could actually learn next to nothing about other philosophers. And even though I do not consider the concept of the class struggle Marx’s most significant contribution, admittedly it was this concept which fanned the youthful flames of justice in my soul necessary to provide me with the energy to seek for deeper relations.
Definitely, the names of Steiner and Marx have not been mentioned only to “advertise” this paper. I am truly delighted with the opportunity provided by this book to unify readers from two completely different backgrounds. I would like to show that in searching for real knowledge we have to approach the opposition without prejudice and, if possible, with understanding and native curiosity. My feeling that by this time nobody had succeeded in dealing with Steiner, as well as with Marx, with the required dignity was also a significant reason for including both names in the title of this book. My dispute with these two philosophers is far from a sign of my disrespect for them – on the contrary, it shows that their doctrines are still fully topical.
Try as I might, the text is still less comprehensible than I would like it be, and some chapters cannot be fully understood without in-depth knowledge of Steiner’s anthroposophy. I have not yet succeeded in eliminating this deficiency. However, readers are urged to continue reading as the less comprehensible chapters are followed by easier ones.
This essay is a kind of experiment as it is dedicated both to the academic and lay public. And while writing this essay I kept in my mind the inner struggle of all people for their earthly desires.
What is our world like? What is the meaning of human life? What does it really mean to follow Christ? In my attempt to answer these questions I bring a radical change to prevailing opinions."
Carin, but I mean that Steiner and Marx had more common than you could seen above. Both of them had desire to help world to be better. Steiner tryed people to better understand Christianity against materialism which is not compatibile with our human nature and Marx tryed people to understand that social order is not compatibile with our human nature. Steiner wrote about Lucifer´s activity and trye to teach us how to sufer it, and Marx about Estranged Labour and how to sufer it. But in my book you will see that not ony this is for them common. There are deep philosophical problems which comes from german clasic philosophy which are common for them both.
Risen
Hi Valdi
How are you?
It is my understanding man is redeemed first for man is higher than minerals, plants and animals.
(John Jocelyn – the Zodiac)
‘Think of the vast difference between man and mineral! Yet man is only three stages above the mineral. Try to conceive of the sublimity of beings who are nine, eight, or even seven stages above man. These supersensible beings, the highest of the Spiritual Hierarchies, are called the Seraphim, Cherubim, and Thrones – the First Hierarchy’.
When man is redeemed – risen – the risen man so to is nature.
Christian Rosencreuz wrote: The same resurrectional life promised by Christ is also promised of Nature. The message of the Cross is quite special and I think Rudolf Steiner tells it splendidly in this lecture of his:
From Jesus to Christ Lecture V1
http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/FromJ2C1973/19111010p01.html
Well, these are my thoughts. Please let me know what you think in relation to your book.
My regards Caryn
Lucifer influence
Hi Carin,
what do you thing should we only belive that Christ were risen? Is it enough for us to go through Lucifer´s influence? Or should we something practicaly to do to go through Lucifer´s Influence? What do you thing is our karma : only to clean our physical body to get quality of Philosophical stone? Do not have question about transformations of minerals connection with cleaning/transformation of our phisical body? Steiners article only show us that Apostle John was thru, that we are now convinced about Resurrection, but Steiner did not show us how. We have utomaticaly got our body by help Trones, Cherubim, Seraphim. And what do you think: do we automatilaly go through Lucifer´s influence like before or we are now adult and responsible and we have to do something. What do you think could be redeming of minerals have connection our going through Lucifer´s influence? Have a look at: “In the Fourth Round man will have redeemed the mineral kingdom, when he will have transformed it by his work upon it. ............ In the Fifth Round we redeem the plant world, in the Sixth the animal and in the Seventh Round the human kingdom. Then man will be mature enough to tread a new Planet.”[1]
Carin, it is very hard to understand what here Steiner mean if he is speaking about redeeming the mineral kingdom, but I am explaining that in my book very concrete. It is crucial point to understant what it is about.
[1] Steiner, R.: Foundations of Esotericism: Lecture XXIV, Berlín, 26th October 1905,
http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/Places/Berlin/19051026p01.html, Paragraph 13
With love
Vlado
Thanks for your reply
Valdi; you have given me lots to think about and will respond once I've gathered my thoughts. Today I was reading up on Marx's philosophy - very interesting. Over December I was reading Emile Zola's The Earth and it makes me think of this. Also thanks for the Steiner link - I've printed it out and will study it. I was quite surprised to see plastic mentioned in the astral realm. phew.
Best regards
Caryn
Estragened labour
Hi Caryn,
if are you interested about Marx, I would like to recomend you to read short article: "Estragened labour". By Steiner´s words it is about alien pover - demonic elemental powers or Ahrimanic powers http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/labour.htm
Kind regards
Vlado
Labour
Hi Valdi
I am reading 'estranged labour' and still gathering my thoughts in our discussion. I do think it is great you are addressing and discussing this from your point of view. The Foundations of Esotericism is very thought provoking - we can see Blavatsky's work here in the root-race cosmology. Steiner recognised the eastern influence in Blavatsky and knew the western cosmology was seeking a truth. Well, let me carry on with study on this.
Have a good weekend Valdi.
Caryn
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